The Lies of Locke Lamora Read Along Week 5

The final week of the LOLL Read Along!

This has been an awesome experience for me and there has been so much fun discussion about a book that I wouldn’t have known about if it wasn’t for this group read.  If you haven’t been reading this book with us, you need to pick this up.  It is too good to overlook.

I realized today that I’ve been extremely remiss in my posts.  I’ve always neglected to mention where these questions are coming from for those of you who aren’t participating in the read along.  This is a problem because they come from some really great bloggers and I hope you’ll check out what they have to say if you haven’t already.  This week’s questions come from Lynn’s Book Blog.

The previous week’s discussions:

Wk 1 – Little Red Reviewer

Wk 2 – Dark Cargo

Wk 3 – My Awful Reviews

Wk 4 - SF Signal

This week has been so busy that I actually forgot about the AMA with Lynch on Wednesday.  Man, and I wanted to ask him some stuff…pout.  What’d I miss?!  So, I still have too much to do today and I can feel myself getting sick as I write this so I’m not sure I have a lot of energy to put into this post, but I should be able to participate in everyone else’s discussions more tomorrow and hopefully make up for it.  At least this isn’t the end of the Lynchmob and I’ll be able to come back strong for the second half of this Read Along with Red Seas Under Red Skies.  YAY!

1.       The Thorn of Camorr is renowned – he can beat anyone in a fight and he steals from the rich to give to the poor.  Except of course that clearly most of the myths surrounding him are based on fantasy and not fact.  Now that the book is finished how do you feel the man himself compares to his legend.  Did you feel that he changed as the story progressed and, if so, how did this make you feel about him by the time the conclusion was reached?

I think the ultimate development in Locke’s character was the realization (for readers and for Locke) that he couldn’t live up to the insane myth that had been built up around him.  Struggling with that is what made the end of the book so chaotic and heart-wrenching for me.

2.       Scott Lynch certainly likes to give his leading ladies some entertaining and strong roles to play.  We have the Berangia sisters – and I definitely wouldn’t like to get on the wrong side of them or their blades plus Dona Vorchenza who is the Spider and played a very cool character – even play acting to catch the Thorn.  How did you feel about the treatment the sisters and Dona received at the hands of Jean and Locke – were you surprised, did it seem out of character at all or justified?

Man, you stab a guy in the neck with some poisoned knitting needles and think you’re not going to get punched?!  Was I the only one who stood up and shouted at her Chris Tucker style, “You got knocked the fuck out!”

Haha, remember that?

3.       Towards the end we saw a little more of the magic and the history of the Bondsmagi.  The magic, particularly with the use of true names, reminds me a little of old fashioned witchcraft or even voodoo.  But, more than that I was fascinated after reading the interlude headed ‘The Throne in Ashes’ about the Elderglass and the Elders and why their structures were able to survive even against the full might of the Bondsmagi – do you have any theories about this do you think it’s based on one of our ancient civilisations or maybe similar to a myth??

I always enjoy long lost civilizations in books that leave behind technology that we don’t understand.  It recalls Easter Island or Stonehenge.  I don’t know if it is important whether this story was fact or fiction, what seemed important was the knowledge that there are things about the world that we can never understand and that which will always confound our best attempts at comprehension.  It adds a sense of mystery that pervades everything in the book and I thoroughly enjoyed the limited exposure we had to it.

4.       We have previously discussed Scott Lynch’s use of description and whether it’s too much or just spot on.  Having got into the last quarter of the book where the level of tension was seriously cranked up – did you still find, the breaks for interludes and the descriptions useful or, under the circumstances did it feel more like a distraction?

I struggled with it at first, but pretty quickly came to understand the rhythm to Lynch’s writing that made it easier to get through.  That tension-relaxation rhythm eventually worked pretty well for me.

5.       Now that the book has finished how did you feel about the conclusion and the eventual reveal about the Grey King and more to the point the motivations he declared for such revenge – does it seem credible, were you expecting much worse or something completely different altogether?

I was actually disappointed by this reveal.  I felt like we hadn’t ever met him and we really only knew very little about his sisters so I had trouble caring about his history and what happened to him.  I thought Camorr was full of possible Grey King candidates without introducing a new character and on top of that, we had just met the Spider so there were these two characters that we had just met for the first time yet had been so instrumental everything that led up to this point.  On top of that, we had just lost 3 very important characters who all had huge personalities and we were wondering if Locke and Jean could hold it together without getting themselves killed.  By the time he was finally revealed, I just didn’t have room to care about the damn Grey King, who was the supreme ruler of all dirt bags.

6.       Were you surprised that Locke, being given two possible choices (one of which could possibly mean he would miss his chance for revenge on the Grey King) chose to go back to the Tower  – especially given that (1) he would have difficulty in getting into the building (2) he would have difficulty in convincing them about the situation and (3) he would have difficulty in remaining free afterwards? Did anyone else nearly pee their pants when Locke and the rest were carrying the sculptures up to the roof garden?

I wasn’t surprised at all.  But I also didn’t interpret this choice the same way.  It was a given that he would seek out the GK eventually.  He’s pledged his life to ruining the GK’s life and even his desires.  Insomuch as the GK wanted the nobility dead, Locke would do whatever it took to keep that from happening.  This seemed less dilemma of two opposite choices than the first step in his long range goal.

And yeah, that was pretty nerve-wracking.  I was just waiting for one to drop!

7.       Finally, the other question I would chuck in here is that, following the end of the book I was intrigued to check out some of the reviews of LOLL and noticed that the negative reviews mentioned the use of profanity.  How did you feel about this – was it excessive? Just enough? Not enough?

Beautifully profane in every way.  Loved it.  I didn’t think he used it every chance he got

8.       Okay one further, and probably most important but very quick question – having finished, will you pick up the sequel, Red Seas Under Red Skies?

Not only am I excited about RSURS but I already can’t wait for Republic of Thieves.  Oh, and I wouldn’t miss the chance to participate in the second part of the read along for anything.  

The Lies of Locke Lamora Read Along Week 4

Week 4 of the Lynchmob’s madness is behind us.  Next week, Lynch is doing an AMA on Reddit’s fantasy subreddit.  Lady’s, don’t let me be the first one to propose!

This section of the book was so intense I don’t really even know what to say…

Let’s just get into the questions

1.      In the chapter “A Curious Tale for Countess Amberglass” we learn of the tradition of the night tea in Camorr. I found that not so much fantastical as realistic – how about you?

I have actually been thinking about something similar recently.  It’s funny, in any given SF title in which food is consumed, it is likely that someone will be drinking coffee.  On Mars, on planets light years away, in space ships, in alternate universes.  Somehow, in any possible parallel universe or timeline, coffee and now tea, seem to stick.  I like coffee and tea so I’m okay with it, but it does make me wonder what about the process of steeped beverages is so damn vital to human existence?

2.      When Jean meets with what will become the Wicked Sisters for the first time, the meeting is described very much like how people feel when they find their true work or home. Agree? Disagree? Some of both?

I actually hadn’t thought of it that way, but it’s totally right.  It was an epiphany.  I don’t know, this was probably the only interlude story that I wasn’t completely enthralled with.  Not sure why, I’ll probably like it when I re-read it :)

3.      Salt devils. Bug. Jean. The description is intense. Do you find that description a help in visualizing the scene? Do you find yourself wishing the description was occasionally – well – a little less descriptive?

Uh…I was so worried about Locke that I didn’t even care about those things :)

4.      This section has so much action in it, it’s hard to find a place to pause. But…but.. oh, Locke. Oh, Jean. On their return to the House of Perelandro, their world is turned upside down. Did you see it coming?

Unfortunately I did see this coming.  Not because I predicted it, but because I saw a quote on a blog.  It wasn’t a surprise when I found that out and it was actually okay because when I was listening to this part, I was running and my adrenaline was so high that when Bug died and my emotions were kriffing everywhere.  I was literally choking back tears!  “Am I a Gentleman Bastard?”   Man that really got me.

5.      Tavrin Callas’s service to the House of Aza Guilla is recalled at an opportune moment, and may have something to do with saving a life or three. Do you believe Chains knew what he set in motion? Why or why not?

At first, I thought he had a grand plan and thought that the Grey King had something to do with him.  Now I think he just understood the value of being prepared for ANYTHING.  Maybe he was a Scout?

6.      As Locke and Jean prepare for Capa Raza, Dona Vorchenza’s remark that the Thorn of Camorr has never been violent – only greedy and resorting to trickery – comes to mind again. Will this pattern continue?

This is a hard question to answer because the Camorri conception of justifiable violence is very different than what I’m comfortable.  Also, I’m not sure she is actually right…remember their fight with Conte?

7.      Does Locke Lamora or the Thorn of Camorr enter Meraggio’s Countinghouse that day? Is there a difference?

Wow, this might be the best question so far.  Hmm…

I think Locke entered.  No plan, just trying to literally pick the law scribe’s pockets from him.  But once he sees Meraggio and his plan develops so quickly, I think it is the Thorn of Camorr who leaves.

The Lies of Locke Lamora Read Along Week 3

Nice bird, Asshole.

The Lynchmob is entering our 3rd week of shenanigans and something tells me reading the rest of the mob's answers is going to be nearly as fun as this week's reading if that's possible.

This week's reading has been such non-stop insanity that I don't really know how to explain it adequately.  I hope some of you not participating in the Read Along will pick this book up some day because it is too good to miss out on.  I really owe a debt of gratitude to LittleRedReviewer and all the other organizers who convinced me to join in.  This book rules me.

This weeks questions come from Bryce @ MyAwfulReviews and they are pretty goods.  I guess this week has been a lot of fun all the way around.

1. This section is where we finally get to sneak a peek at the magic in The Gentleman Bastards books. From what we read, what are your initial impressions of the magic Lynch is using? Is there any way that Locke and Company would be able to get around the Bondsmage's powers?

Real talk – I like the alchemy better.  The magic isn’t bad, but the alchemy is so cool and we have really only seen a hint at the magic, so I’ll hold-out a little longer before making a final decision.  I’m not sure how the GB’s will get past that magic but something must happen to get them out of this and the last interlude really shot down any thoughts I had about this, so now I’m kind of at a loss.

2. Not a question, but an area for rampant speculation: If you want to take a stab at who you think the Grey King might be, feel free to do it here.

I’m so glad this question was asked because my 2 best guesses are that it is Father Chains (assuming he faked his own death) or Locke’s itinerant father.  I’m leaning toward Father Chains because he has said so many times now that he has big plans for the Gentleman Bastards and The Grey King knew about their hideout.  The TERRIBLE treatment Locke has to go through makes me doubt myself, but that’s my answer.  I thought it could also be his actual father because he was mentioned shortly before Locke vaguely recognized TGK.  I really want it to be Father Chains.  Since this isn’t a question though, it doesn’t count if I’m wrong.

2.5 (since 2 wasn't really a question) Anyone see the Nazca thing coming? Anyone? Do you think there are more crazy turns like this in store for the book? Would you like to speculate about them here? (yes, yes you would)

Yes, yes I would.  First though, I didn’t expect Nazca and I cursed out loud, alone, in the car when it happened.  I was shocked FOR REALZ.  Second, I kind of thought the whole scene with the guy climbing out the window was a pretty crazy turn since that could be their alibi shot.  Other crazy turns?  I think Bug is kind of set up to do something pretty cool.  Also, if I had to guess which of the GB’s could ever possibly die, I’d say Jean since he is like Locke’s closest friend.  Man, that’s a lot of speculation in just two answers. 

3. When Locke says "Nice bird, arsehole," I lose it. EVERY TIME. And not just because I have the UK version of the book and the word arsehole is funnier than asshole. Have there been any other places in the books so far where you found yourself laughing out loud, or giggling like a crazy person on the subway?

This week’s reading had me laughing like a crazy hysterical person the whole time.  My favorites were: “You’ll be using your balls for tonsils” and “We’ll give you our preferences when you suck the peas from our shit and eat them for dinner for a week”  Those might not be completely accurate but the point is that this book is changing my understanding of what really counts as an insult.  I’m not sure I’ve ever really been insulting in my life compared to the GB’s

4. By the end of this reading section, have your opinions changed about how clever the Bastards are? Do you still feel like they're "cleverer than all the rest?" Or have they been decidedly outplayed by the Grey King and his Bondsmage?

They are the best and they are my friends.  How dare you suggest that anyone would doubt the Gentleman Bastards!

5. I imagine that you've probably read ahead, since this was a huge cliffhanger of an ending for the "present" storyline, but I'll ask this anyway: Where do you see the story going from here, now that the Grey King is thought to be dead?

I actually did not read ahead because I wanted to torture myself.  I was pretty mad when I realized we were stopping at this point.  See my answer to Q2 for where I think it is going.  I think the Gentleman Bastards are going to be running shit by the time we’re through.

6. What do you think of the characters Scott Lynch has given us so far? Are they believable? Real? Fleshed out? If not, what are they lacking?

My only real complaint is Bug.  I don’t think we know enough about him, but I kind of suspect we might find out more in an upcoming interlude…hopefully.  Everyone else is the best.  Not only are the characters dynamic and fun but the dialogue, while over-the-top, feels so natural to me.  Plus I love the way Lynch reveals just the right details about the characters in the interludes.

7. Now that you've seen how clever Chains is about his "apprenticeships," why do you think he's doing all of this? Does he have an endgame in sight? Is there a goal he wants them to achieve, or is it something more emotional like revenge?

Again see Q2 for Chains’ endgame.  I think Lynch has eluded over and over that there is some overarching evil plan.  In the highly unlikely chance that I am wrong about Father Chains, maybe he planned this whole thing (the Grey King thing) out with one of his “associates” that he sent the boys to?

The Lies of Locke Lamora Read Along Week 2

Week 2 Everyone!

This week was great.  We keep getting more and more of Locke’s background, which is another way of saying it's just getting better and better.  For whatever reason,  most of my answers this week contain predictions.  This week I was able to correctly predict that it was a Gentleman Bastard who snuck into Don Salvara’s room and told him to cooperate with The Thorn of Camorr.  Maybe this read along is helping me to realize my latent soothsaying talents?  Cool.

1) Do you think Locke can pull off his scheme of playing a Midnighter who is working with Don Salvara to capture the Thorn of Camorr? I mean, he is now playing two roles in this game - and thank goodness for that costume room the Gentlemen Bastards have!

Honestly.  If everything works perfectly for him, I’m not sure it would be much of a book.  I don’t think whatever trouble he has will result from too many roles or schemes running at once though.  It seems clear though that when the other Gentleman Bastards are warning him so strongly it must be setting something up.  Then, of course, we all remember that if there is one thing that Locke has a history of, it is not being circumspect.  This seems like a perfect time for those old tendencies to come bubbling to the surface.

2) Are you digging the detail the author has put into the alcoholic drinks in this story?

Most of the beverages sound like they would burn the hairs from my chest and kill me.  Am I excited about that?  YES J

3) Who is this mysterious lady Gentlemen Bastard Sabetha and what does she mean to Locke?

Well, I don’t really know but it sounds like Locke has some pretty strong feelings. I find this kind of weird and I haven’t really been thinking about it much because Locke is not a very sexualized character but Nazca alluded to Sabetha being the only woman Locke will ever love.  Oh well, I guess we’ll be finding out sometime and maybe he just loves her like a sister?  Doubt it though.

4) Are you as creeped out over the use of Wraithstone to create Gentled animals as I am?

I have been creeped out by so much in this book that I guess I’m already becoming inured to the terrible things that happen there.  What I did like was the way that that Lynch introduced gentled animals early in the book with just enough information to get a vague sense of what they were until he finally explained them in all their horrible glory.

5) I got a kick out of child Locke's first meeting with Capa Barsavi and his daughter Nazca, which was shortly followed up in the story by Barsavi granting adult Locke permission to court his daughter! Where do you think that will lead? Can you see these two together?

I hadn’t thought about this much, but now that you bring it up… I think the easy assurance from Nazca could be hinting at some future problems there…  Perhaps they’ll actually fall in love, just before Sabetha returns and Locke will be caught between two loves?  Whatever happens, it will assuredly not be good.

6) Capa Barsavi is freaked out over rumors of The Gray King and, in fact, us readers are privy to a gruesome torture scene. The Gray King is knocking garristas off left and right. What do you think that means?

Well, either Lynch is demonstrating that Barsavi is not all that competent or brave a leader, or Barsavi is savvy to some information that we are not…likely he has reason to believe The Gray King is one of his own?

7) In the Interlude: The Boy Who Cried for a Corpse, we learn that Father Chains owes an alchemist a favor, and that favor is a fresh corpse. He sets the boys to figuring out how to provide one, and they can't 'create' the corpse themselves. How did you like Locke's solution to this conundrum?

I was really surprised by how simple and straight-forward his solution was.  I did laugh nearly hysterically when Father Chains asked what had happened to cause everyone to throw money at him.  Probably not safe to drive while laughing so hard…

The Lies of Locke Lamora Read Along Week 1

So it begins.  The first week of the LoLL Read Along has been really good.  Listening to it during my commute actually makes me wish my drive were longer every morning, which would literally be a crime against humanity.

I’m sure this is a great book to read and I look forward to re-reading it someday to get that experience, but if there are any of you looking for an audiobook, THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO START LISTENING TO.  And don’t think I’m just being silly or over-excited about the read along.  This is a damn good book to listen to.

But if you are wondering if this read-along is hot shit.  It is.  Even Scott Lynch is participating his thoughts and bonus insights to the conversation. THE AUTHOR!  And bonus #1 reveals that Camorr was initially created on a napkin in a Burger King in Minnesota, my home state.  Whaddya know!  So now I have a new pilgrimage for the next time I’m visiting family (that is if I can buck up the courage to enter a fast food establishment).

1. If this is your first time reading The Lies of Locke Lamora, what do you think of it so far?  If this is a re-read for you, how does the book stand up to rereading?

I like it.  I like it a lot.  I was a little nervous because I’ve been reading so much SF lately that I wasn’t sure how my caveman brain would adjust to the change in scenery,  but LoLL has been so compelling that I didn’t have any problem. 

The only other fantasy I’ve listened to has been LoTR and even though I loved the books I couldn’t finish the Audiobook.  Maybe now that I have more experience with audiobooks, I wouldn’t have a problem, but I was somewhat concerned that maybe there was something about extensive world building that is difficult to transfer to audiobook format.  Add to that the quality of the last audiobook I read, The Stainless Steel Rat, and you can see that I had a number of concerns about whether I would enjoy this experience.

As it turns out, all of my fears were for naught.  The Lies of Locke Lamora is a fantastic book and the audiobook is less a reading than a performance!  Although it would be hard to ruin Lynch’s dialogue, I kind of wonder if Michael Page is drawing on some personal thieving experience because he really delivers it with passion.

2. At last count, I found three time lines:  Locke as as a 20-something adult, Locke meeting Father Chains for the first time, and Locke as a younger child in Shades Hill. How are you doing with the Flashback within a flashback style of introducing characters and the world? 

I’m usually okay with this kind of storytelling.  When the character is interesting enough, I want to hear everything about them and I want to know about their entire lives.  Who didn’t love to watch Forrest Gump or Homer Wells (help me think of someone else like this) grow up.  Maybe someone.  But the point is, when a story is as compelling as this one, it would almost feel incomplete if we didn’t get Locke’s background too or conversely, if we didn’t get to see what kind of thief he turned into.

That being said, the switches were at first pretty tough to keep up with in the audiobook.  Sometimes a narrator will pause at chapter ends if there is no title, sometimes they don’t.  I don’t really care either way, but in this instance, I was very confused the first time it happened.  Now that we are further into the story though, I haven’t had that problem in subsequent jumps.  Thinking about it now makes me think that my initial troubles said more about the quality of the story and the reading, that I had been sucked in so completely that forcing me to remember I was listening to a book was like slapping  me in the face. 

3. Speaking of the world, what do you think of Camorr and Lynch's world building? 

Is it weird to like Camorr?  Should I enjoy hearing about a place that sells death tokens and hangs children from bridges with bricks attached to their feet so they’re sure to die?  Is that wrong?  Is it weirder still that such a gruesome place also feels so real?  Am I really going to keep doing this??

Camorr is a cool and cruel and dirty place.  It’s horrible and no one would ever choose to live there.  But it’s also the kind of place that you just can’t help wanting to read about.  I still feel like we are still only a little way into it and I’m too excited to see what other terrible things exist in this place.

4. Father Chains and the death offering. . .  quite the code of honor for thieves, isn't it? What kind of person do you think Chains is going to mold Locke into?  

I am notoriously bad at predicting the future.  Based on the 20-something timeline it seems like Father Chains is creating a bank vault.  He seems to be able to act like just a normal 20-something thief (because I really know what is like), but the complexity of his scheme suggests to me that even his relationship with his compatriots is somewhat of a façade.  I’m betting that only he knows the extent of his plan and he doesn’t even share that with his closest partners.  Father Chains told the twins that when he was through with him, Locke would make his church scheme look like child’s play and I’ll bet that’s exactly what’s going to happen.  Add to that the fact that Locke is an insane prodigy and lies as often as he breathes and I think he’ll be an incomparable mastermind who no one can really ever know.  I certainly don’t believe Father Chains will turn him into a well-adjusted criminal but maybe a better actor.

5.  It's been a while since I read this, and I'd forgotten how much of the beginning of the book is pure set up, for the characters, the plot, and the world. Generally speaking, do you prefer set up and world building done this way, or do you prefer to be thrown into the deep end with what's happening?

This is actually the one complaint I would have about the book.  It feels more like we are taking a break from the story, than exploring an unfamiliar world.  On top of that, it seems like I learn more about the world and society just through the normal storytelling.  There was actually one point when I was literally thinking, “I wish he would just get on with it”.  Camorr is still a cool place and I have no complaints about it, but Locke and everyone else are so interesting that I just don’t want to take a break!

6. If you've already started attempting to pick the pockets of your family members (or even thought about it!) raise your hand.

Not yet, but I have realized that I should be meting out much harsher punishments and that we could be forcing Emmeline to work for her food.  Also we could live underground.

Cold Bacon & Dirt Pies

"When the quality get together to dine, it's impolite to knock anybody off with anything other than poison.  That thing is for scooping butter, not slicing windpipes."

“This is a lot of trouble to go to just to eat.”

“Well in Shades Hill you may be able to eat cold bacon and dirt pies off one another’s asses for all your old master cares, but now you’re a Gentleman Bastard.  Emphasis on the gentleman.”

The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch

Oh man, this book has been so awesome to listen to during my commute.  I’m really looking forward to participating in the read along.  Michael Page has been a fantastic narrator and just about everything going on is completely despicable.  What’s not to like?

I Forgot Something

Another thing that started this week was Little Red Reviewer's The Lies of Locke Lamora Read Along.  This read along is actually hosted by a few different folks from a number of great review sites and will actually include the first 2 books in the Gentleman Bastard Sequence.  Lies was nominated for a couple Fantasy awards in 2007 so I'm claiming that is the nexus with HEP and everyone is believing me.


Every week we read a bit and wait for questions/whatever to come from one of the hosts and post on our blogs on Saturday.  The rest of the weekend will be spent running around the internet doing/saying fanboy/girl things and generally causing a ruckus over, from what I can tell after only a couple days reading is probably going to become, one of my new all time favorites.  If not, the hosts are all pretty bad-ass reviewers, so there should at least be some good discussions.  


So why would I ever take on another book when my reading schedule has already reached a fever pitch?  Read this description from Andrea and tell me you aren't interested:

Detail the third:  These books are rated super R for casual violence, violence towards children, promotion of flexible morals,  massive amounts of glamorized criminal activity, occasional drug and alcohol use, a smidgen of bought and paid for sex, and oh gods, the swear words. So many deliciously magnificent naughty words! If you wouldn’t use the word delicious or magnificent to describe creative invective, and if you are at all offended by anything else listed above, this may not be the read along for you.  Really. I’m not kidding. Don’t even ask me if this would be appropriate for your fourteen year old kid.

Right? Am I right?!  And when she says deliciously magnificent naughty words...oh god are they done well (and delivered perfectly in the audiobook).


So for the next couple of months HEP will include an extra book discussion each Saturday (starting next), and my insanity level is sure to reach institutional levels.  But that's what we're all here for right?  To watch things burn?  


And, if I'm allowed to quote Andrea one last time, "which of you bastards is on board for this fucking thing?"